Camp Kay Outfitters

Submitted by: John Rubel

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Review Submitted: Nov 11, 2016

Hunt Date: Nov 7, 2016

Species Hunted: Whitetail Deer

Days Hunted: 7

Hunt Type: Semi-Guided

Primary Terrain: Farmland

Method: Bow

Price Range: 1000-1999

Archery whitetail

Wasn't my first time hunting with these guys and certainly not my last. Passed several bucks everyday waiting for a 4 or 5 year old deer. Saw bucks 130+ almost everyday. Finally connected on a 4 year old 10 point. Kris my guide knew his properties very well the bucks on them and their habits.

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Submitted by: John Rubel

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Review Submitted: Jul 12, 2015

Hunt Date: Nov 15, 2014

Species Hunted: Whitetail Deer

Days Hunted: 2

Hunt Type: Semi-Guided

Primary Terrain: Farmland

Method: Muzzleloader

Price Range: 1000-1999

Awesome hunt

I have hunted Michigan, Ohio, Texas, Kansas, Wyoming, and Indiana. I have never seen deer rut as hard as I did while hunting with camp Kay. I have hunted with them during both gun and archery. Never went without seeing deer or small bucks. Was very exciting to hit the grunt or call or tilt a bleat can and hear crunching leaves and grunting coming your way. My favorite day there I didn't even kill a deer. Hunted all day and rutting action so was so intense all day I never got to eat my lunch! Almost killed a 150+ buck that day with my bow but couldn't get him to stop. I killed a 135" 12 point there with my muzzleloader. I was instructed to sit all day because it was very likely to catch a buck cruising through at mid day. Toes were frozen and I was having trouble staying on stand. I wasn't see many deer. About noon I glassed the cut corn and I could see a good buck bedded about 700 yards away in cut corn with a hot doe. Called the guide with my phone and asked for permission to stalk it and if it was their land. After receiving the ok, I belly crawled to 175 yds and shot him with my muzzleloader he got up ran stumbled and fell. If you stay on stand all day and hunt hard you can be successful with camp Kay outfitters. Great guides. Two of them have become two of my best friends. I've met other hunters there that have become my friends. It felt like a hunting camp rather than a business. I highly recommend camp Kay outfitters.

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Submitted by: Sean Donahue

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Review Submitted: Dec 11, 2012

Hunt Date: Nov 11, 2011

Species Hunted: Whitetail Deer

Days Hunted: 5

Hunt Type: Semi-Guided

Primary Terrain: Farmland

Method: Rifle

Price Range: 1000-1999

a rip off

this was the nightmare of all time. this guy knows NOTHING about hunting deer. he was dishonest. he lied to me about everything. if you want details you may contact me.if the state of indiana had guide lines or regulations on guide service he would not be doing it. please save your money don t sign up with this poor outfitter.i am a good hunter. i saw a hand full of deer . i expected to see more and i told him i wanted to hunt in the woods not a turned over corn field. i told him i can t walk very far. he had me walking across turned over fields that were 400 yards up 800 yards. dirt dust or mud 10 inches or more. his guide wouldn t even get out of his truck. he would point to a tree line and say you ll find it [ the stand ] he asked me if i had a 4 wheeler to help with the great distance across the fields. i said yeah at home. the owner [ so called outfitter] told me i couldn t use a 4 wheeler. i finally just went home pissed off.

Outfitter Response: Next Hunt, Sean Donahue, and Potential clients, Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond to this hunting review that was posted over a year after the hunt took place. Before I begin, I would like everyone to know not only about the excellent quality of deer that we possess within our hunting areas, but the services we provide every client which place us as the top outfitter each year in Indiana. It is important when reading these reviews to understand from the client's perspective of why they felt compelled to write a negative review concerning myself as a person, my business, and my employees. We all work hard to provide excellent service and quality hunting opportunities for each client based on their own unique abilities and requirements. We have successfully guided every type of hunter and are always making minor improvements that can make the difference between a successful or unsuccessful hunting experience. We all know as hunters that the majority of people that go on guided hunts are unsuccessful. We strive to provide hunts during the optimal times of the deer season for our customers. Sean, I want to thank you for your business and want you to know that we did many things to help you try to have an enjoyable and productive hunt. You forgot to mention a few critical items about your hunt that people should be aware of when they contact you. At the end of this review, I will provide both of our contact information so if hunters are interested in knowing more or confirming the facts, you will also have a chance to respond. 1) You forgot to mention that we had a lot of conversations prior to your arrival. Those conversations dealt primarily with 3 main issues. You praised me for the amount of information that we provide potential customers concerning our hunts on multiple occasions. You told me that this would be the last hunt of your life. You also had your home flooded and your health had declined to the point of you not knowing if you would even make the trip. I felt very compelled to help you through these hardships and allow you to come to Indiana for an enjoyable hunt during the rut for $1,000 if you agreed to bring at least one more full paying client. You were unable to find a hunting companion and notified me of this and I still allowed you to hunt for $1,000. You were given a discounted rate from $2,250 mainly due to you explaining to me that this would be last hunt the last hunt of your life. You had provided me with quite an honor and responsibility to you at that point. 2) Sean, I promise not to be condescending in any way toward you in this review. It is not my goal to "beat a dead horse". You attacked me on many levels with this review to the point of slander and liable and it is my responsibility to respond honestly with the facts. You are unaware of many things that take place behind the scenes, but I am aware of about everything that occurs with all of our hunters during the course of their hunt. 3)You state that you purchased a semi-guided rifle hunt with Camp Kay Outfitters on November 11th and that it was a 5 day hunt and you paid $1000-$1999. What you should have said was that you were on our 6 1/2 day semi-guided rut combo hunt between the dates of 11/7-11/13, 2011. You forgot to mention that you used a crossbow for 4 1/2 days before switching over to your muzzleloader. There was no rifle involved. The hunt you signed up for is historically our highest opportunity hunt because it provides the best days of bow and firearm hunting. I assisted you in contacting the appropriate agency to enable you to gain a special crossbow permit due to your disability. 4)You informed me that you contacted the state and local DNR offices about myself and my business multiple times prior to arriving for the hunt and they told you that I was very reputable. You also took it upon yourself to contact local DNR officers during the course of your hunt? 5) Sean, You mentioned that the hunt was "the nightmare of all time" and that I was "dishonest". I can provide you with the emails that we sent each other addressing any and all concerns that you had prior to ever hunting. You were provided with a guide that has lived in this area his entire life and has owned an outfitting business for big game hunts in Alaska for over 20 years. All of my guides are extremely knowledgeable about our deer and truly do have your best interest in mind. The state of Indiana does not require me to have a guiding license and I truly wish they would so only qualified outfitters could guide paying clients within our state. I'm not really sure what you meant by that but the main reason some states require outfitters to carry guiding licenses is for safety reasons. We do many things for safety including safe stand placement, safety harnesses, requiring hunters to attend an orientation meeting where they shoot their weapon, and communicate with their guides after every hunt- for safety or assistance. These procedures are also listed on our website for hunters to view when making their choice of an outfitter for their next hunt. 6) Sean, you were unhappy because you wanted to hunt the big woods atmosphere that you were accustomed to in the northeast. We don't have that type of hunting here in the midwest. We place hunters in areas where there is heavy agriculture and small woodlots. We hunt completely different than where you hunt. Our deer are completely different than yours. We understood that you had problems walking so we placed you on farms with minimal walks of 1/4-1/2 mile as you stated with 400 yards up to 800 yards". We have very flat ground in the area that you hunted I apologize that you had to walk that far if it was outside of your abilities. I'm not sure what you meant by having to walk across dirt, dust, or mud, but it is most certainly common to have to walk across dirt, dust, and mud in any hunting environment you might pursue. On the issue with the stands, they are very easy to find and we try to minimize our scent in an area. We would have been happy though to walk you to the stand. I do not allow atvs because again we are hunting small woodlots, funnels, and pinch points. In general, it would not be productive in any way to drive and atv to the stand that you were hunting. This activity would be extremely counterproductive toward your hunt. Most hunters that hunt with us classify themselves as good hunters. A good hunter though is able to adapt to any new situation but is never guaranteed success. 7) Sean, You forgot to mention that you became enraged with my guide after a few days of hunting to the point of approaching him at his home with a loaded firearm. My guide notified me that he truly felt threatened for his life by your actions. Most reasonable people take the time to discuss with one another problems or concerns in life and I or my guide would have at any point taken the time to address with you and concerns you had. You were extremely lucky that my guide did not press charges against you that evening for your behavior. I was made aware of the situation and had to at that point step in and take over. I had an important choice to make and that was to ask you to leave immediately or take it upon myself to guide you myself. Please keep in mind that I run the business and don't typically guide hunters but am quite capable of guiding myself. I understood that you had travelled a long distance to hunt with us and that this would be your last hunt so I took it upon myself to not only allow you the opportunity to continue hunting, but to allow you extra days of hunting for additional opportunity. 8) Sean, I drove over and met you within the hunting area and took you into a woods where we had a tree stand placed and gave you what you wanted. At that point we agreed that you would be communicating solely with me after every hunt. I started your hunt over at that point which provided you with a total of 10 1/2 days of hunting. Upon taking you to the hunting location within the woods I asked you to inspect the stand and asked if everything was alright for you. You stated yes and we left the woods. When we returned to the truck you were so pleased, as well as apologetic toward us that you very kindly gave me one gallon of Vermont maple syrup and maple candy. You gave some syrup to your guide that you threatened as well. Both I and your guide truly appreciated these gifts. You forgot to tell people this in the review. You also forgot to mention that you were so worn out from walking up the hill into the woods that you didn't go out hunting that evening. That was very disappointing to me to make a special trip over to give you what you wanted and then you didn't hunt the spot. My question to you is how am I responsible for you only seeing a "handful of deer" if you weren't even hunting? 9) Sean, you forgot to mention the best/worst part of your hunt with us. We had 5 hunters including you that hunted the combo week. All five hunters had a least 1 opportunity or killed. I had 3 hunters from Virginia who all killed nice bucks. A hunter from Michigan that you met had a bow malfunction that caused him to miss out on a nice 140 class buck. What happened to you? Well what happened is that you never hunted the woods where you wanted to go and ended up going back to the same area where we originally placed you. You walked approximately 400 yards probably across dirt, dust, or maybe even mud. That evening 2 nice shooter bucks came out and presented an opportunity for a shot. You decided to take a shot at one of the bucks and took careful aim when one of the bucks provided an opportunity for a shot. You pulled the trigger of your muzzleloader and nothing happened. You lifted the gun and a few seconds later had a delayed discharge. Yes, this is exactly what happened because this is exactly what you told me happened. You were extremely happy with me at that point but chose to end your hunt on that note. I am sorry that your gun had a delayed fire. Again, I as a "so called outfitter" try to avoid this occurence by having "ALL CUSTOMERS SHOOT THEIR WEAPONS UPON ARRIVAL" as clearly stated on the website that you praised me for. I never heard from you again after that night except after being notified by one of my customers of the review that you conveniently placed online to purposely justify your experience in order to essentially get even with me for your misfortunes. 10) Sean, you can probably understand that I am very honest with my customers including yourself and truly do care about our operation because I have taken the time to make you and others aware of the true hunting experience that you had with us over one year prior to you feeling the need to negatively depict myself, my employees, and my business to other potential hunters who will quickly see the level of professional service that we provide. Lastly Sean, This "so called outfitter" that's a "rip off" who knows "nothing" actually started with nothing but a dream and the ambition to run the best outfitting business in the state of Indiana. Today we are #1 for Indiana whitetail hunts. We earned this title and honor through hard work, knowledge, and dedication to provide quality hunting experiences for our clients. Sean, I wish you the best in life despite your hardships and shortcomings but shame on you for your actions and behavior that you displayed during the course of your hunt and toward others with your cowardly approach to write an extremely vindictive and demeaning review. Shame on me for providing you with the benefit of the doubt. Sincerely, Mark Liebner- Owner- Camp Kay Outfitters Midwest Whitetail Hunts www.campkayoutfitters.com markliebner@hotmail.com 765-427-3228 Sean Donahue- stdone@comcast.net- 802-388-9229

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