K Lazy Outfitters Inc

Submitted by: Gary Knighton

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Review Submitted: Oct 7, 2020

Hunt Date: Sep 23, 2020

Species Hunted: Elk, Mule Deer

Days Hunted: 7

Hunt Type: Guided

Primary Terrain: Mountain

Method: Rifle

Price Range: 4000-4999

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of our K Lazy 3 El

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly of our K Lazy 3 Elk hunt. When I contacted Kenny for a guided elk hunt, I explained this was the last hunt for my 82-year-old father who can still out climb me on any mountain. Kenny said, “I will have you guys in my camp at Meadow Creek, and I know exactly where to put your father on The Rock.” He explained that they have a 50% harvest rate except for last year where the cold hit hard, and his website explained that the trip will include a lot of good eating with a full-time cook. “K Lazy 3 does promise to provide the best available guides and cooks, excellent equipment and horses, and the personal touch of owner Kenny Low…” What we received was a move to a different camp the night of arrival with no explanation other than you are going to Theodore Creek. Kenny also fired his lead guide from Theodore Creek over an entitlement issue and we were left with guides with very limited experience and one “guide” that was moved from the mule team to guide, you guessed it, my father. Now this was his last hunt, and he was assigned the least experienced guide. I use the word guide loosely as these “guides” are not given the tools to succeed and are very limited in experience as hunting guides. I am starting to get ahead of myself. The Good were these hard-working young men called guides. They worked their behinds off taking care of the horses and getting us on the mountain. We had to help the rookie guide learn how to guide, but he was a great young horseman who did know how to work hard. The Good was the beautiful wilderness that we were able to see and the wilderness experience. The Good was the time I spent with my father, uncle and brother and making what little lemonade we could out of the lemons we were handed. The Bad was lack of tools, training and expertise for the “guides” and the lack of experience truly guiding that area. They could get us places but there had been no scouting for elk but only maps of areas and hopes to find elk. Come to find out, there hasn’t been an elk taken out of Theodore Creek in 2 years so God bless these young men called guides to help give us optimism when there is no human way they could have had optimism themselves. This is probably why Kenny said the firing of the lead guide would not make a difference in the hunt. No elk = no difference. The Bad was when Kenny told me there was a 50% harvest rate with his camps other than a slightly less rate last year due to the severe cold. I pulled up the last 5 years’ harvest rate in HD 280 which Kenny now owns all 4 outfitter camps allowed in the Scapegoat Wilderness. According to the state of Montana, there were roughly 903 hunters hunt in the scapegoat wilderness area which includes hunters in all 4 camps from 2015 – 2019. In addition, there were only 114 elk taken in total from archery and rifle. Of those 26 were cows, leaving 88 bulls for 903 hunters. My math says the bull harvest rate over the last 5 years was 9.7% and a total harvest rate of 12.6% and NOT 50%. In my business if I had that kind of rate and advertised something different; I would lose my license so this might be more ugly than bad. The Bad was after a more than disappointing hunt we experienced more customer service neglect and had to find our own transportation to Great Falls Airport. I had put my request in for transportation the day of arrival as Kenny knew our flight time as well as with Caren 4 days before our trip ended. However, while sitting at Kenny’s lodge and seeing workers and trucks sit idle, Kenny’s mom (Caren) told us that finding your own ride was the best option because she did not know if or when anyone could take us. That was just one more piece of poor organization with K Lazy 3. The bad was the non-existent communication and lack of organization from switching camps, to limited food at camp while waiting for a mule team to bring in more supplies, to any departure time or agenda. We arrived the first night at the appointed time for dinner (which was a good meal) and the safety meeting… 2 hours later there was dinner and the safety meeting was “be here at 7:30 for breakfast and to get out on the road… no breakfast… and a few hours later we were headed up the road. They did have to promote a mule wrangler to a guide that morning… so maybe that was the confusion. It continued through the week and you know how it ended with the trip to the airport. We were told there would be more food than we could eat; however, that was not always the case….especially with breakfast where it was limited with the breakfast meats. My uncle, who has been on dozens of guided hunts, continued to remark that this was the most dishonest and poorly organized “hunts” he has ever been a part of. The Bad was we were told that we could enjoy camp and everything would be provided for us, but the truth is we had to cut and split our own wood if we wanted to be warm and ration meals. Full disclosure is that there were 4 hunters who could not eat wheat and 1 who could not eat dairy (Kenny was made aware well ahead of time), but we could eat meat, veggies and fruit and that was limited. I asked Caren, Kenny’s mom and designated camp supervisor, if we could get some wood for our tents with a cold storm on the horizon (specifically for my uncle and father’s tent), and the reply was “the boys have enough to do.” Now, I am capable of cutting my own wood, but that is not what was advertised. It was very cold, windy, and stormy so we cut wood for the camp and provided plenty to the kitchen tent as well. The Ugly was the dishonesty of Kenny regarding the hunt. He seemed to be willing to tell me what I wanted to hear to get me signed up. The Ugly was the promise to give my dad a good last hunt and telling me he was basically going to have him under his wing and then to move us to an understaffed camp without any discussion whatsoever. The Ugly was to not staff our camp with trained and experienced guides for what we were hunting and to fire his lead guide to benefit him and not the customer. However, when there was truly little chance of taking an elk (<10% based on stats), I guess it did not really make any difference in the end. The Ugly was to not replace the camp supervisor when he needed to leave for personal reasons. The Ugly were the inaccurate elk harvest numbers he gave me (was not just bad, that was Ugly). By the way, The Ugly numbers since 2010 in HD 280, there have been 2,449 hunters, 324 elk taken (269 were bulls) which gives a 13.2% harvest rate for elk, and 11% harvest rate for bulls in the previous 10 years. The Ugly were the other members of our camp who looked at us and told us Kenny told them the same dishonest story. The Ugly were the hunters from Deer Park who told us Kenny lied to them, too. The Ugly was the near $20,000 I paid and got a hunt in an area that wolves have overtaken the area to where if there were any elk, they don’t even bugle in the rut and the cows stay quiet. The Ugly was having to go to my father and apologize that I had believed Kenny and that it was my trusting nature that got us burned. I am a “word is your bond” and a “handshake contract” kind of man. Unfortunately, there are not many like that left in the world. I am sure Kenny may have once that kind of a man, but business growth has probably taken him to value margins in business more than personal satisfaction of the hunter. I would venture to say there was not one satisfied hunter this past week and that says a lot about the outfitter and not the hunter. The Ugly was going every conceivable hunting location, high and low, riding, hiking, sitting, glassing, and seeing only two elk prints and only seeing elk droppings at least a year or two old in only 2 spots. The Ugly isn’t being out the money but being out the experience, I was sold and the experience I thought I was going to have with my father on his last hunt. I know hunting is hunting – but make it my fault if I do not get an elk. To only see only a couple of elk prints and 2 elk droppings between 5 hunters after going miles and miles through the Scapegoat Wilderness is almost as crazy as being sold ocean front property in Arizona. Kenny’s mom (Caren) was the cook and rather than help with the truth she looked at us with disdain and scorn when we asked, “Where are the elk and the elk sign?” Her response was “they are out there somewhere – you have to go look.” We did look, just ask Clay, Ty, and Branch. I am sure she was completely aware of the real harvest numbers. The final day promised steak dinner was a pot of beans and a 2 day old ham bone that sent everyone but my brother running to the latrine in the morning since he was the only one that did not eat them. Full disclosure, my father and uncle made 2 trips in the middle of the night. The promise of “you will never go hungry” did not make it past the sandwich with one slice of meat and a single slice of cheese or the one sausage you got with your breakfast. As long as we are on food; 3 hunters in my group eat Keto so I had talked to Kenny about this, and he said he would work with that… well, maybe the guys in Meadow Creek got to eat Keto on our behalf. To end on an positive note, I want to repeat that the young men called “guides” that had the crazy task of finding the ghost elk got up and worked extremely hard each day… though without tools and lots of experience, they were definitely good hard working young men.

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Submitted by: Gary Knighton

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Review Submitted: Oct 1, 2020

Hunt Date: Sep 23, 2020

Species Hunted: Elk, Mule Deer

Days Hunted: 7

Hunt Type: Guided

Primary Terrain: Mountain

Method: Rifle

Price Range: 4000-4999

Good, Bad and Ugly

The good was the wilderness "guides". They are not overly experienced, but they worked real hard taking us to back country and maintaining the horses and had great attitudes considering they rarely come across elk. The bad was Kenny changing us from the Meadow Creek camp without explanation to a camp who hasn't harvested an elk in 2 years. He is a salesman when it comes to hunts. I believe he may do fine with his summer expeditions, but from hunting outside of Meadow Creek I don't believe he has the staff and organization to handle all of the camps to provide what we elk hunters are paying for and expecting. The guides are not trained guides, but are hard working young kids who do work hard. The ugly are the numbers of elk actually harvested. Kenny advertises a 50% harvest rate, but the numbers in the Scapegoat Wilderness are far from that. For example, according to the state of Montana there have been 900+ hunters in the last 5 years hunt with Kenny and the other outfitter in there (Wade), but there has only been 114 elk taken (26 were cows) and only 33 that were 6 or more points. So in reality there is a 12% harvest rate for elk (9.7% for bulls) in the entire HD 280 over the last 5 years. Book this hunt if you are interested in a great wilderness exploration, but DO NOT book if you are looking for a successful hunt unless you are into setting your money on fire. There were so many organizational problems with this outfitter, but I am just hitting the simple bullet points. The wolves are so strong in this area that the elk don't even bugle during the rut. I could write another page, but I believe you have the picture by now.

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note: The following reviews predate the numeric rating system and are not included in this outfitter's overall rating.

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outfitter review submitted by: Jon Sinnen on Nov 14 2004

Species Hunted: Elk and Mule Deer

Game Quality: Good

Accommodation Quality: Excellent

Camp Condition: Excellent

Food Quality: Excellent

Guide Experience: Excellent

Other Personal Experience: Good

Overall Impression: Excellent

Recommend: Yes

Reviewer Comments: I have had the opportunity to hunt in all three of Klazy3's camps and would highly recommend hunting in any of them. Brett Todd and his guides have proven to me that they run a first class backcountry elk and mule deer hunt. I have had great opportunities in the three years I have hunted with them. I will look forward to returning to hunt with Klazy3 again in the future.

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